Cyclops Notes

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Cyclops Notes

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:43 pm

BlueFlames
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:24 am
Location: SSX Vault 12
I realize I've nearly given June a miss for my usual monthly MWO post. Honestly, I'm a touch short of material, since I usually highlight a mech that I've spent time grinding through the elite skill tier, and this month I've mostly been using reliable workhorses (HBK-4P w/ 3LPL, Loki w/ 2UAC5, & GHR-5P w/ 3LPL) to grind out C-Bills and unlock weapon modules in anticipation of the Cyclops arriving in August.

Because I've got the Cyclops on the brain, below are the garbled, disjointed notes that I've cobbled together regarding possible builds for the mech over the past several weeks. They're presented in code tags, because it's a direct copy-paste from an un-word-wrapped text file, and I can't be bothered to sort out the line breaks and tab-stops in a properly-formatted forum post. The raw copy-paste job may also give a bit of insight into how my head works, when I get a first look at a chassis.

When I reference test builds, I used Smurphy's mech lab utility with a Mauler as a surrogate for the 10z, 11adc, and 11p builds. I'd slap in an XL250 to occupy the crit slots for the engine, note the weight difference between that engine and an XL400, and add weapons, ammo, and equipment until that difference was the tonnage free. The 10q test builds were a back-of-the-napkin quality pen-and-paper job, since there are no 90t Inner Sphere mechs with six or seven missile hardpoints. All builds assume the use of endo-steel internals, though I think one or two of the 10q builds would benefit from foregoing endo in favor of more open crit slots. That determination will have to wait until the mech is out or I get bored enough to redo those builds by hand.

Code: Select all

Cyclops ideas (pre-quirk announcement)
Cyclops ideas (The quirk announcement changed nothing.)

[STRIKE]Oh, hey....  Ghost heat 2.0 gets implemented in the same patch as introduces the Cyclops.[/STRIKE]
Thankfully, PGI can't hit a deadline for shit.
   Alpha strikes over 30 damage get punished.  That's *all* of these configs.

* - ideas that can at least be slapped together
   Most of these ideas can be improved, since I didn't optimize crit slot usage.
   Might consider other engine options too.  Ten tons separate the XL360 and the XL400.
   Armor shaving - 60pts on each arm; 32pts/ton - most builds can strip at least one arm
   Important things neglected:  AC10 builds - particularly on brawlly 11p's.
Skip the hero preorder - might buy for MC later - ballistics in both torsos (dual-Gauss stock)
   2UAC5+AC5 w/ XL400 as an easy dakka build - plenty of space for ammo & 2 MLs/MPLs
Skip/Sell the CYC11-a - in basic pack - redundant w/ CYC-11adc - unless you want to do a silly 3AC2 build
XL400 acquired in summer grab bag event.

XL400 speeds in 90t mech - 72kph w/o tweak & 77.4kph w/ tweak
XL380 speeds - 68.4kph w/o tweak & 73.5 w/ tweak
XL/STD360 speeds - 64.8kph w/o tweak & 69.7kph w/ tweak
   (One hex/turn walk spd is ~16.2kph run spd)

Engine weights (vs. XL400)   
XL400  - 33.5t
XL380  - 27.5t (06.0t less)
XL360  - 23.5t (10.0t less)
STD360 - 40.0t (06.5t more)
   
Quirk Notes - Weapon quirks are pretty minimal.  Torso has modest structure quirks, but those meaty legs have no durability buffs.
   A couple of chassis have Gauss quirks, so consider Gauss builds on those.
   
   CYC-11a - Gauss cooldown 10%
   CYC-10q - Missile heat gen 5%
   CYC-10z - AC20 velocity 10% & AC20 cooldown 5%
   CYC-11adc - Energy cooldown 10% & missile velocity 10%
   CYC-11p - Ballistic & energy range 10% & missile velocity 10%
   All - poop weapon quirks.

CYC-11p - ECM, 4E, 2M, 2B - in reinforcement pack (endo & DHS stock)
   >* 2PPC+Gauss (3t ammo) 12DHS, ECM, & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS
   * PPC+2AC5 (5t ammo) 16DHS, ECM, & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS/weapons
   * AC20 (3.5t ammo)+4MPL 13DHS, ECM, & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS
      Possible swap of MPLs for SRMs (steps on 11adc's toes)
   >* UAC5+AC5 (5t ammo comb.) + 2ASRM4 (2t ammo) + 4ML, ECM, & 11DHS
      (armor:  16 HD, 58 legs, & 48 arms)
      Drop Art. for two more DHS?
   AC10+3LPL+ECM? - too heavy for an XL400, even w/ armor shave from UAC/AC5 build above
      XL395 - room for 11DHS
   *   XL380 - room for 15DHS
CYC-10q - 7 missile & 3 energy (2 usable) hardpoints - in basic pack - less able to test build
   68.5t pod space w/ endo-steel & no engine or equipment
   >Splat (6 ASRM6) - some ammo in an arm will require DHS to critpad
      33.5t for XL400
      24t for launchers
      6t minimum ammo; 10t prefered
         4t in legs
         1t in head
         2t w/ 2DHS in each arm (4t total)
      4t DHS in arms - too crit-starved - these can be shoved in the engine, but then there's no padding effect
      Aggressive armor shave to free another 2t - might come up short of crit space - yep
   7 ALRM5 (3-5 ALRM5 may actually be optimal for chain firing - alt. 3&3 group fire)
      33.5t for XL400
      18t for launchers (6)
      7t minimum ammo; 10t prefered
         4t in legs
         1t in head
         2t w/ 2DHS in each arm (4t total)
      4t DHS in arms
      4t free for ???
   ------------------------------------------
   6LRM5+3LL
      33.5t for XL400
      12t for launchers (6)
      5t for ammo (head & legs - 900 damage)
      15t for LLs (3)
      3t for DHS
   ------------------------------------------
   >LPLs & ALRM5s
      33.5t for XL400
      21t for LPLs (3)
      9t for launchers (3)
      4.5t ammo (head & legs only)
      0.5t free for ???
         Probably armor shave for some added DHS - 3LPLs will run hot
   >LPLs & SRM4s
      33.5t for XL400
      21t for LPLs (3)
      8t for launchers (4)
      4.5t ammo
         1t head
         3.5t legs
      1.5t free for ???
   LPLs & ASRM6s
      33.5t for XL400
      14t for LPLs (2)
      12t for launchers (3)
      4.5t ammo
         1t head
         3.5t legs
      4.5t free for ???
      Side stacking option:  LPLs & DHS on right & SRMs on left - Arm can be stripped for more free tonnage
CYC-10z - 6 energy, 2 missile, 1 ballistic torso - in basic pack
   AC20 (2.5t ammo)+6MPL & 10DHS - too hot & too short on ammo, even w/ armor shaving
      Drop 2-3 MPL for ammo & DHS
   * 3LPL+3ML & 21DHS - fills crits & weight
   * 3LPL+UAC5 (4t ammo) 11 DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/weapons/DHS
      Swap UAC5 in favor of an AC10?
   * 3LPL+ASRM6+ASRM4 (3t ammo) 14 DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/weapons
   >3LPL+Gauss - too heavy for XL400 -> XL380, weapons, 13DHS, & 3t ammo
   * 3LL+Gauss - common build on 80t chassis
      XL400, 3t ammo, 14DHS - armor shave - 12/18 on head, 64/76 on legs & 12/60 on left arm
CYC-11adc - 2E, 4M, 2B - ballistic energy mix w/ more missiles than CYC-11a - in reinforcement pack
   >* AC20 (4t ammo)+4SRM4 (2.5t ammo) 12DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS
      I'd like another half ton of AC20 & one ton of SRM ammo
   > AC10 (3t ammo) + 3ASRM6 + 1ASRM4 (5.5t ammo) w/ XL400 & possible armor shaving
   * 2AC5 (4t ammo)+3ASRM6 (3t ammo) 10DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS
   * Gauss (3t ammo)+4ALRM5 (5t ammo) 10DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS
   * 2AC5 (5t ammo)+3ALRM5 (5t ammo) 10 DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS/launchers
   * AC10 (2.5t ammo)+4ALRM5 (4.5t ammo)+2ML, 12DHS & possible armor shaving for more ammo/DHS
      One less launcher saves three tons

CYC-10z note on Gauss configs
   XL400 (77.4kph) -  3LL+Gauss+14DHS = 48% heat eff, 4.30 sustained DPS, & 42 dmg alpha
   > XL380 (73.5kph) - 3LPL+Gauss+13DHS = 43% heat eff, 4.74 sustained DPS, & 48 dmg alpha
   XL360 (69.7kph) - 3LPL+Gauss+17DHS = 53% heat eff, 5.84 sustained DPS, & 48 dmg alpha
   versus Zeus w/ XL380, 3LL+Gauss+13DHS -> 46% heat eff, 4.12 sustained DPS, 42 dmg alpha, & 82.7kph
   
Note on CYC-11p & CYC11-adc dual-AC5 builds - possibly upgrade one AC5 to a UAC5, weight permitting
Start w/ CYC-11adc AC20/SRM build or AC10/SRM build
For four highlighted variants
   Cost of DHS upgrade ->   4.5mil
   Cost of endo ->          2.7mil
   Cost of ferro dg ->      0.2mil
   Cost of XL380s ->        6.2mil
                  Total    13.6mil
      
Engines - STD360 (40.0t) for AC20 builds & XL400 (33.5t) for everything else, except where otherwise noted.


Why yes, that is seventeen twenty-three builds for a mech that isn't out yet. And yes, at the end of the day, I probably spend more time building mechs than piloting them.

[edit]I updated the notes and changed the title to better reflect what the majority of the thread content is about.[/edit]

[edit]I've updated the notes again.[/edit]

The worst part about the 10q is that a pure SRM build will have to be named SplatPlops.
Last edited by BlueFlames on Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Cyclops Notes

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:46 pm

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Anubis
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Even though I don't play, I enjoy the reads on these. Glad you got the June post in there :D
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Cyclops Notes

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:45 am

BlueFlames
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:24 am
Location: SSX Vault 12
I'm glad you're enjoying the posts. If you do decide to give MWO a try, I hope that the build threads will prove helpful.

Re: Cyclops Notes

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:39 pm

BlueFlames
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:24 am
Location: SSX Vault 12
The Cyclops comes out tomorrow, the quirks were announced, and I've been poking around with my build notes again. Twenty-three builds is the final pre-release total. Hopefully, I can make a couple of them work, or all this thought committed to the page is going to be a bit of an embarrassment. Below is a quick highlight of the builds I'm going to start with on each of the four variants that I plan on eventually mastering (noting all of the caveats above about cobbling together preview builds, without a proper mechlab stand-in available):

CYC-10q
XL400 engine
544 std. armor
Endo-steel internal structure
3 Large Lasers
6 LRM5 w/ 5t ammo
13 Double Heat Sinks
Note: I might drop a launcher and do some other creative weight shaving to add Artemis to the remaining missiles.

CYC-10z
XL400 engine
480 std. armor
Endo-steel internal structure
3 Large Lasers
1 Gauss Rifle w/ 3t ammo
14 Double Heat Sinks

CYC-11adc
XL400 engine
544 std. armor
Endo-steel internal structure
1 AC10 w/ 3t ammo
3 ASRM6 + 1 ASRM4 w/ 5t ammo
12 Double Heat Sinks

CYC-11p
XL400 Engine
496 std. armor
Endo-steel internal structure
Guardian ECM
1 UAC5 + 1 AC5 w/ 5t combined ammo (3t:2t split)
2 ASRM4 w/ 2t ammo
4 Medium Lasers
11 Double Heat Sinks


A point worth noting: I'm starting to shift away from Large Pulse Lasers and toward Large Lasers, in anticipation of a damage nerf slowly sliding its way down the pike. Some time back, Large Lasers did 9 damage and LPLs did 10, and nobody thought that one damage, even with the shorter beam duration, was worth giving up about 100m of range and two additional tons per laser. They buffed the LPL's damage to 11 as an enticement, and it made for an interesting choice in the mechlab. Now, they're testing a reversal of that buff....for reasons. This all makes the XL Swayback very sad and shifted some of my choices shown above.

Finally, that CYC-11p build looks like a mixed range build, but it's not. The UAC5+AC5 combination is pretty smashy up close, barring excessive jamming, so it's meant to work at closer ranges, where it can use the autocannons and SRMs in combination, despite having the capability to fire from longer ranges with just the ballistic weapons. This combination of autocannons is preferable to an AC20, in this case, since it allows the use of an XL engine, where as a torso-mounted AC20 consumes too much space in the side-torso to leave room for the XL engine's spillover. The medium lasers allow for a damage burst at the start of the fight or at the end, when you can overheat, without fear of reprisal.

Now you know what will be eating up my free time for the next few weeks.

Re: Cyclops Notes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:41 am

BlueFlames
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:24 am
Location: SSX Vault 12
I just unlocked Speed Tweak on the four Cyclops variants that I'm focused on, so I should have a proper Cyclops post written up before the end of the month. Most of the builds have been refined a bit, but despite testing some other wildly different builds, I've come back to ones very similar to what I started with. On one of them, I went through quite a bit of tribulation about whether I should mount another half-ton of ammo. Ultimately, I did, and...

MWO 09.11.2016-01.27.05.jpg
Smashy smashy.
MWO 09.11.2016-01.27.05.jpg (447.66 KiB) Viewed 4787 times


...I used it.

Also, I've also had my chuckle at the forum index truncating the LRM assault mech thread's title to "Don't do this to your ass..." God, I'm juvenile.

Re: Cyclops Notes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:56 pm

BlueFlames
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:24 am
Location: SSX Vault 12
Amusing anecdote:

I had a drop on Frozen City in my CYC-11adc earlier today. Things looked grim at the start, when I tore off along the northern cliff face, with only a Shadow Cat and an Arctic Cheetah to keep me company. The rest of the team had strung out along the eastern edge of no-man's land, and I thought we were going to be rolled. That in mind, I decided to continue flanking and draw what blood I could, prior to the inevitable defeat.

I got lucky, spotting a Centurion that slipped past the two lighter mechs ahead of me, and it tried to sneak into the wrecked dropship to ... ambush someone? ... avoid me? I don't know what he was really trying to do, because it's becoming increasingly rare for people to move through the buildings in the center-north of the map. Whatever. He tried to take cover behind the derelict Atlas, and I just walked up to him and smashed him. He had enough firepower to soften my armor, particularly on the right torso, but he was doomed the moment he backed himself into that corner.

Popping out of the dropship, the Cheetah and Shadow Cat began making their way toward the western edge of no-man's land, where the enemy team had crossed earlier. I ran across the southern edge, staying out of sight, only by virtue of the tunnel-vision of hostiles in the southern part of the city. Turns out, all of those hostiles were various forms of energy sniper, including a Marauder with five ER large lasers, a Shadow Cat with three ER large lasers, and a Hunchback IIC with some combination of large pulse and ER medium lasers. If I had been caught in the open, it would have been bad. In fact, even though I wasn't being shot at, I still shielded with my left side for the entire run across the gully between the western and eastern halves of the map.

On the way, my detachment lost the Shadow Cat, who headed north to try to regroup with the rest of the team, leaving just me and the Cheetah. That Arctic Cheetah pilot knew exactly what he needed to do, while we were running paired. He never got too far ahead to where he couldn't support me, and he did an ace job of prioritizing threats. When I saw a Locust closing in, I figured he'd either be the end of me or turn into an ammo sink, if I were to start trying to take its legs. That Cheetah pilot made sure that I never had to worry about it, though, taking out the Locust (and maybe another light/medium?), while I got to focus on dealing damage to bigger targets.

And deal damage I did. First, I focused on the Marauder, while the Shadow Cat tried plinking away at my armor from far too close for his build. Once the Marauder was down, that Shadow Cat was my next target, deciding to run too late. The Hunchback IIC intercepted me, while I was chasing the Shadow Cat. I switched targets, first blasting through the Hunchback's back armor with a volley of SRMs and an AC10 shell, then softening his front armor with another combined volley. He ducked around a corner, hoping to get a shot off, as I passed, but I saw through his shenanigans and got my shot off first, finishing him off in one final volley to the center torso. Meanwhile, whatever went through the hostile Shadow Cat pilot's head, pulling range wasn't it. He showed up around a corner within range of all of my weapons, and I made sure he didn't have enough time alive to regret the mistake.

At that point, I had a moment to check the score and saw that we were up ten to five. The last two mechs were on the opposite side of the gully again. As I started running in that direction, I took some pot shots with my AC10 against a Highlander IIC out in the open, dealing some inconsequential damage and making it about halfway to the target, before those hostile survivors finally succumbed to the rest of the team. So much for being rolled over.

Lesson learned: The weight invested in a big engine pays dividends, when your 90-ton assault mech starts showing up in all kinds of places where it's not expected.


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