AO IRC Bot

[esd]

It's come to my attention that some people may not like the presence of the Anarchy Online relay-bot in #ssx as it causes quite a lot of what some people consider spam.

What's your take on this? Do you mind it being there, or would you prefer it was in another channel?

*NOTE TO MODERATOR/ADMIN: I'd appreciate it if this thread was turned into a poll and placed in the Members forum. Poll options: "Keep it in #ssx", "Put it in another channel", "Don't Care"

Edit - Done

[Raa]

I'm indifferent. It doesn't bother me in the room. In fact, it's fun to yell at Creuton while he's in game.

[BlackDove]

Screw you.

Anyway, the main channel is dead for some parts of the day anyway, don't think it should be that big of a deal myself.

Stay.

[Anubis]

My opinion from the other thread.

I really dont like the idea of this, for several reasons.
Firstly, its confusing to even those of us who frequent the channel. Ignoring my initial confusion as to what was happening, since I didnt know about the bot, look at the name issue. I dont, and Im sure others agree, want to have to learn a new name for every AO player, get used to them using that, and have the same happen again whenever someone rolls a new alt. Anyone who knows me in NC2 will know I have a hard time remembering who's alts are who as it is, and even now I dont know who a couple of alts are. I dont fancy having to go through this process in IRC too.
Secondly, it will drastically increase the amount of 'spam' in IRC (meaning of course what I personally consider spam). It would mean that I would have to start ignoring IRC when playing NC2 (I currently alt tab a lot so that I can keep up with conversations, check if I'm wanted, etc). However alt tabbing every few seconds/minutes just isnt feasible when you're trying to play an MMO, and constantly alt tabbing just to find things like this:

[16:54] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: want the div i have?
[16:54] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: i'm in rome green general now
[16:56] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: OMW
[16:58] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: BTW buy some night goggles when you can use them - Makes the ToTW outside a lot more vivid

(i.e. line after line of things that are completely irrelevant to a significant proportion of the channel that dont play AO) will swiftly become considerably annoying.

Yes, I am certainly aware that the above issues can be solved with simply adding the bot to your ignore list, which I have done. But even with that done there is the issue of people in IRC (possibly AO members who arent currently logged into the game) chatting about things being said on the ingame AO chat, and then I'm only hearing one side to a conversation, which swiftly becomes just as annoying.

Is it not possible to give the AO group their own channel for this bot that non-AO players can join if they wish to? To me that would certainly be a better idea.

[JarodRah]

I am indifferent, it is nice to be able to chat to non-ao players SSX players, and brainwash them into becoming AO players, but my main thing for me is it is good people can get ahold of me in-game if I am needed, or I can see who is online in AO before I hope into game.

Its a great tool.

I would point out that there is now a significant portion of IRC users playing AO :P

[M.Steiner]

Don't mind it being there, but when its filling the channel up with tons of ingame talk then it does get a little spammy.

Could you imagine how the channel would look if we had a bot in some of the other games we play and not just AO? WoW for instance. It'd be spam central.

I like the idea of being able to contact people ingame through IRC, i just don't think theres any need for us all to hear everything thats being said ingame tbh.

[BlackDove]

Ehhh, Anubis one of the reasons you alt-tab from NC2 is to talk about ingame stuff pertaining to NC2, and I've seen on more than one occasion for people to be baffled by the NC terminology.

I really don't see your point on this one. True, there may be some chatter, but overall it isn't all that more than what you do with NC2, or what we do with FreeSpace, etc.

The good thing about it remaining IN the channel though, is that I can talk to people in irc while playing the game, instead of being cut off for the whole day (Unlike you, I can't alt-tab).

Don't think it's a fair way to view things, sorry.

[JarodRah]

I would suggest that some of the ORG use PMs more for communicating to specific players. It even gets annoying in game with the SSX team channel is spammed with 1 to 1 conversations.

That would probably fix anny's and MS's spam issue.

[SSX-Killjoy]

Ignoring the argument about irrelevant conversation.. (can anyone really say the conversations there are truly relevant to the entire SSX?)

I have no problems putting the bot in its own channel, it is a simple change. I think what we really need is another channel to sit on in the game. However, creating dual channels in AO is not something I know how to do...

The AO interface atleast does allow us to have multple chats in the same window, so if someone can figure out how to register a local channel in the game, I say lets go that way. I still want the ability to chat with those in the main channel when I want to, and i would hate to lose that. Otherwise we might as well not even have the relay enabled.

As we move into mostly MMORPG style gaming this is gonna become a bigger issue I think. Relaying through IRC is although currently a small thing, people are working on them for each of the major MMORPGs in various states of completion, so we need to find a moderate solution to this problem that doesn't take away from the main purpose and value of using Relays with those in game.

[BlackDove]

I would suggest that some of the ORG use PMs more for communicating to specific players. It even gets annoying in game with the SSX team channel is spammed with 1 to 1 conversations.

That would probably fix anny's and MS's spam issue.

Agreed.

I don't want to impose.

But I DO want to be able to talk to people in #ssx

[JarodRah]

Judd, I will check on registering anotehr channel in game, I am not sure that is possible. As for creating chat windows that is relatively easy and I will post some sort of tutorial in the AO area. I norally have 4-5 chat instances open at one time

[Raa]

I'd have to agree with BD on this one. While it could get spammy, it's hypocritical to say that it shouldn't be there because of the AO-specific discussion.

[Anubis]

Ehhh, Anubis one of the reasons you alt-tab from NC2 is to talk about ingame stuff pertaining to NC2, and I've seen on more than one occasion for people to be baffled by the NC terminology.

I really don't see your point on this one. True, there may be some chatter, but overall it isn't all that more than what you do with NC2, or what we do with FreeSpace, etc.

Can both be answered the same way. True we talk about NC2, true we talk about Freespace, but we dont engage in the long discussions about this game every single day, and its rare that we'll ever get a discussion going that will last all day. The AO chat will be appearing all day every day (as long as people are ingame). One day would be fine with me, but in the long term I really dont like the idea of it happening.

As I said, link it to another channel, let those who want to listen join that. That way you can chat to people in IRC and #SSX doesnt fill to the brink with spam.

[Blue Star]

I'd go for creating a second IRC channel (#SSX-AO or something).

Practically all IRC clients can go multi-room and those who don't mind the AO-specific chat can use the new channel to keep in touch with us

Personally I wouldn't mind relays to all our groups in the games, but ATM only AO seems to be the only one that's possible.

Idle Question though - if Neocron could have had a bot in long ago, would it have been a problem?

[BlackDove]

Ehhh, Anubis one of the reasons you alt-tab from NC2 is to talk about ingame stuff pertaining to NC2, and I've seen on more than one occasion for people to be baffled by the NC terminology.

I really don't see your point on this one. True, there may be some chatter, but overall it isn't all that more than what you do with NC2, or what we do with FreeSpace, etc.

Can both be answered the same way. True we talk about NC2, true we talk about Freespace, but we dont engage in the long discussions about this game every single day, and its rare that we'll ever get a discussion going that will last all day. The AO chat will be appearing all day every day (as long as people are ingame). One day would be fine with me, but in the long term I really dont like the idea of it happening.

As I said, link it to another channel, let those who want to listen join that. That way you can chat to people in IRC and #SSX doesnt fill to the brink with spam.

We don't engage in long discussions about AO either. You quoted four lines. We do engage in long chats between eachother.

Other than that, yes, you do talk quite a bit about NC2, and we do occasionally talk quite a bit about FreeSpace as well.

I don't really get what you're saying, or rather, I don't understand what annoys you about it.

a) You occasionally don't understand what we talk about. Big deal, so others don't understand when you talk about NC2 or when we talk about FreeSpace or when WoW is being discussed as well as Guild Wars, etc. etc.

b) The argument about new nicknames is a dead end. You aren't bothered with nicknames, because we aren't in the channel bearing different nicknames - we all talk through one nickname, the bot. There is no OP/Deop trouble, and there isn't trouble of knowing werther the nicknames are SSX or not, because you know they are if they're talking through that bot. I also don't understand why you have to remember or know every nickname to match to the appropriate nick in the channel?

I just don't see the point you're trying to make.

[SSX-Killjoy]

It annoys him becuase he can't do it in NC2... hehehe

Which I am hunting for a possible option for that...

[Inquisitor]

Mixed opinion, it could indeed subsume any existing conversation, if arm twisted, I'd create SSX-AO, but I honestly can go either way.

[Anubis]

a) You occasionally don't understand what we talk about. Big deal, so others don't understand when you talk about NC2 or when we talk about FreeSpace or when WoW is being discussed as well as Guild Wars, etc. etc.

There is a significant difference between occasionally not understanding what is said and what the bot is making possible. Look at my log for today upon my joining the channel.

Session Start (mgo4.maxgaming.net:#SSX): Tue May 24 16:39:45 2005
[16:39] *** Now talking in #SSX.
*** Topic of #SSX: Welcome to the eXiles. Enjoy your stay. If you need additional information, please visit (Link: http://www.shatteredstar.org)http://www.shatteredstar.org
*** Set by BlackDove 83609 minutes ago
*** Users on #ssx: SSX-Anubis @[AC]SC-Sidearms @[SC]Isileth-AO @Raa @esd-afk @Avator @Tepa @Blue_Star @[SSX]Bot[AO] @Thunderbird @Winbrian|Studying @Winbrian|Home|Away @BlackDove @QuantumDelta @[AC]-Tet @DJ
*** End of /NAMES list.
[16:39] *** Mode change "+r" for user SSX-Anubis by SSX-Anubis
-NickServ- Password accepted - you are now recognized.
[16:39] *** Mode change "+o SSX-Anubis" for channel #ssx by ChanServ
[16:39] <SSX-Anubis> heya guys
*** Your user mode is "+ir"
*** Mode for channel #ssx is "+tn"
*** Channel #ssx was created at Wed Sep 15 01:44:03 2004
[16:39] <Raa> excellence.
[16:39] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: it's the n00bis
[16:39] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: welcome
[16:39] *** Join to #SSX completed in 12 seconds.
[16:39] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: And for the cyborg lot, meh - The only thing I'm interested in is the Hellspinner
*** Your user mode is "+ir"
*** Mode for channel #admin is "+stn"
*** Channel #admin was created at Wed Mar 02 14:10:22 2005
[16:40] <SSX-Anubis> o.O wth?
[16:40] *** Join to #admin completed in 18 seconds.
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: O.o
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: n00bis is surprised
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Hehe, hi Anny
[16:40] <Raa> O.o.O
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: nobody told him about the bot eh?
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: ROFL - Guess not
[16:40] <Raa> it's a spambot
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Anubis, what you're seeing a link between SSX-AO's org chat & that IRC channel
[16:40] <SSX-Anubis> ugh, this isnt going to be for the best :/
[16:40] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: ANUBIS DO YOU FEEL LIKE FOR VIAGRA TODAY?
[16:40] <SSX-Anubis> teh spam = x10
[16:41] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Curtosey of an org bot we only got operational a few days ago
[16:41] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: WAIT NO FURTHER, MANY HERBAL VIAGRA FOR YOU TODAY
[16:41] <Raa> Scary how well cruton memorized that
[16:42] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Yeah - I almost thought BD was nigerian then :P
[16:43] * Raa goes afk
[16:43] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: I have a wedding ring and an engagement ring. Which one of you am I going to marry?
[16:43] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Lexity: lol i just smelted mine :P
[16:45] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Sod the rings - When are you finishing doing something?
[16:45] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Because I need a new Div-9 ^^
[16:45] *** krisvek (~krisvek@modem-1673.rns.tamu.edu) has joined channel #ssx
[16:46] *** Signoff: krisvek (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:46] *** krisvek (~krisvek@modem-1673.rns.tamu.edu) has joined channel #ssx
[16:47] *** Signoff: krisvek (Quit: I am I am I am I am I am I am...I was.)
[16:54] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: oh yeah
[16:54] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: want the div i have?
[16:54] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: i'm in rome green general now
[16:56] <Raa> I've got a wedding ring already. >.>
[16:56] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: OMW
[16:57] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Got a link to that Div-9 you have?
[16:58] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: BTW buy some night goggles when you can use them - Makes the ToTW outside a lot more vivid
[16:58] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: 11Division 9 Plasmaprojector1 (1(Link: http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=163320&ql=691)http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=163320&ql=691)
[17:01] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Damn - I like to watch OOC to see the moronity of the people who chat in it, but sometimes they do even my head in
[17:02] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: I'm outside the generals now BD - Which one you in?
[17:03] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Creuset: sec
[17:05] *** Adrian-MGT (~awright@207.180.243.18) has joined channel #ssx
[17:05] <Adrian-MGT> !online
[17:06] <DJ> hmmm
[17:07] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Lexity: so where u2 r
[17:07] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: I'm outside the RGGs, looking at the Jobe portal
[17:08] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Can you find me?
[17:09] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Lexity: not really
[17:09] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Hehe
[17:09] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: It's amazing how little people look up
[17:10] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Other direction
[17:10] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas:
[17:10] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Lexity: lemme shoot u down
[17:10] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Try it :P
[17:10] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Lexity: whats the reqs for that
[17:11] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: This one requires 111 VA
[17:11] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Lexity: 29 to go
[17:11] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Well it depends on how cheap you can get the Yalm
[17:11] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: This one cost a little over 4mil. If you want one, you'd best start looking now
[17:11] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: Especially as a Yalm is NoDrop
[17:12] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas: The cheaper you can find it, the less VA needed
[17:12] *** [SSX]Bot[AO] added to the ignore list.

Line after line of ingame stuff that should be kept ingame, or on a seperate channel, aside from the greeting and the explanation to me of what was happening that is. There is a fine line between occasionally not understanding what someone says and almost constantly not understanding what is said. That is way over the line in my opinion.

b) The argument about new nicknames is a dead end. You aren't bothered with nicknames, because we aren't in the channel bearing different nicknames - we all talk through one nickname, the bot.

Wrong, read the log I posted. What the bot outputs is "<[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas:" (Alexinas being who was speaking in the line I took the transcript from). So infact you ARE bearing different nicknames.

There is no OP/Deop trouble, and there isn't trouble of knowing werther the nicknames are SSX or not, because you know they are if they're talking through that bot. I also don't understand why you have to remember or know every nickname to match to the appropriate nick in the channel?

I never said that there was Op/DeOp trouble, and as for why I have to remember who Im talking to, I like to know who Im talking to, which many will agree I'm sure, is perfectly understandable.

I just don't see the point you're trying to make.

I think I've made my points perfectly clearly.

[BlackDove]

It just occurred to me that if the complaints above are valid, I should be annoyed at this.

[19:52] <Judd-MGT> Isn't the same as calling ADODB objects in VB?
[19:52] <Thunderbird> I have no idea :P
[19:52] <esd-afk> sheep?
[19:53] * Thunderbird is attempting to code a C# application to interact with a PostgreSQL database
[19:53] <Judd-MGT> ahhh
[19:53] <Judd-MGT> they have an ODBC driver for postgres?
[19:53] <Thunderbird> And I've installed the PGSQL ODBC driver
[19:53] <Judd-MGT> nice
[19:53] <Thunderbird> But the System.Data class doesn't have ODBC properties :P
[19:53] <Judd-MGT> then you should be able to call the new ADO object and call connect
[19:53] <Judd-MGT> no it doesn'
[19:53] <Judd-MGT> t
[19:54] <Judd-MGT> you have ot create the object that interacts with the ODBC data
[19:54] <Judd-MGT> have you done ODBC work in VB before?
[19:54] <Thunderbird> somethin tells me I'm missin a reference :P
[19:54] <Thunderbird> nope
[19:54] <Judd-MGT> ahhh
[19:54] <Judd-MGT> one sec
[19:54] <Judd-MGT> let me give you an ex
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> dbOraFromStr = "Provider=OraOLEDB.Oracle;Data Source=" & tbServer1.Text & ";User ID=" & tbUser1.Text & ";Password=" & tbPass1.Text & ";"
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> dbOraFrom = New ADODB.Connection()
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> Try
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> dbOraFrom.Open(dbOraFromStr)
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> Catch ex As Exception
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> UhOh("Unable to connect to FROM Oracle database: " & ex.Message)
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> Exit Sub
[19:55] <Judd-MGT> End Try
[19:56] <Judd-MGT> you have to give the ADODB the provider information
[19:56] <Judd-MGT> and the datasource
[19:56] * esd-afk wonders wtf that all means, and goes afk
[19:56] <Judd-MGT> before you can even see the database
[19:56] <Judd-MGT> 8-)
[19:56] <Thunderbird> hehe
[19:56] <Judd-MGT> if that makes any sense
[19:57] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> 13*** Alexinas logged on
[19:57] <Athon_Solo> UhOh - nice descriptive function name there o_O
[19:58] <Thunderbird> hehe
[19:58] <[SSX]Bot[AO]> 111[AO]1 Alexinas: Yeah, that's what I was thinking ^^
[19:58] <Judd-MGT> hahahaha.. not my code
[19:58] <Judd-MGT> 8-)
[20:01] <Blue_Star> Well I doubt UhOh rewritten with a #define
[20:01] <Blue_Star> Bloody C# hybrid :P
[20:01] <Judd-MGT> its VB code
[20:01] <Judd-MGT> so no #define
[20:01] <Judd-MGT> hehehe
[20:01] <Blue_Star> Hmm - That explains a bit, but still

That isn't contributing to the "Chats that are crucial to the SSX" - yet surprisinly I have no trouble with it whatsoever.

So people talk about stuff I don't get. Big deal.

[M.Steiner]

I think there is a difference between talking about a game on IRC and actually hearing everything thats being said in said game on IRC.
Like i've said, i think its a great idea to be able to chat with people whilst they're playing a game, it would just get rather annoying with to have it all passing through the 1 channel.

Sure we talk about NC on IRC, quite a lot infact. But thats not the same as hearing our ingame NC clanchat through #ssx 24/7, at least not imo anyway.

[edit for typo]

[Anubis]

I think there is a difference between talking about a game on IRC and actually hearing everything thats being said in said game on IRC.
Like i've said, i think its a great idea to be able to chat with people whilst they're playing a game, it would just get rather annoying with to have it all passing through the 1 channel.

Sure we talk about NC on IRC, quite a lot infact. But thats not the same as hearing our ingame NC clanchat chat through #ssx 24/7, at least not imo anyway.

Exactly. I think BD is simply looking around the point tbh.

[BlackDove]

Wrong, read the log I posted. What the bot outputs is "<[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas:" (Alexinas being who was speaking in the line I took the transcript from). So infact you ARE bearing different nicknames..

If this is just about you needing to remember who we are, then no, this is something I can't understand because I don't know who belongs to which nickname either, and I am actually playing the game.

It doesn't stop me from having normal conversations with people though. If I really need to know, I'll ask.

Fact of the matter is, there is no practical trouble this should be causing to anyone.

[Anubis]

Wrong, read the log I posted. What the bot outputs is "<[SSX]Bot[AO]> [AO] Alexinas:" (Alexinas being who was speaking in the line I took the transcript from). So infact you ARE bearing different nicknames..

If this is just about you needing to remember who we are, then no, this is something I can't understand because I don't know who belongs to which nickname either, and I am actually playing the game.

It doesn't stop me from having normal conversations with people though. If I really need to know, I'll ask.

Fact of the matter is, there is no practical trouble this should be causing to anyone.

Just because you dont particularly care who you're talking to doesnt mean others all feel the same way. The fact is I like to know who I'm talking to, and Im sure there are others who feel the same way. In NC2 I feel the same way. If theres someone I see chatting on CLAN chat who's name I dont recognise I'll ask them outright if they're new.

Just because it doesnt affect you doesnt mean it doesnt affect everyone.

EDIT - And as I used multiple points in the original post its obviously not just about me remembering who people are, I made other points too.

[SSX-Killjoy]

Jarod has addressed the issue of seperating our ingame chat stuff with what we want to say to the mainbody ssx channel. So, Anny your initial concern is gone. Anything else?

Once the norm chit-chat is gone it will be to normal usage on the channel. Consider this a learning experience. We have never had an in-game chat relay before. So there will be changes that have to made. Things aren't gonna be all perfect, but we are all here to help make it better.

I don't want to spam the channel any more than anyone else. Spamming is not our goal or our intention. But to say this is being blown out of proportion is an understatement. It is quickly becoming a flamebait for specifying what can and can not be said in the channel.

So please accept my apologize at creating all this confusion, unintentionally. I just want to provide better services to our players, and relaying is one that is definitely a plus.. when done correctly.

[M.Steiner]

Thats the kinda "spam" like stuff i was on about.


[EDIT - nm about it now ]