Upcoming changes and to-do list

Members Only: This forum is restricted to votes and other formal discussions and is intentionally visible to all forum visitors.

Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:49 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
[Updated with new images for The Shattered Star - Thu 9th April]

Update YouTube
Update Google+
Update Twitter
Create New Steam Group (since can't rename)
Updated twitch stream overlay (For hiding Eve stuff etc)
Make & add a STR intro to the YouTube video thread
Create new Twitch Account (since can't rename) [Banner / Profile Picture]
Update Facebook (Name & Banner / Profile Picture]

Update Twitter Feed
Update Carousel Image
- Update the timelime carousel image at the same time (I've removed "coming soon")
Update Logo: Standard / Mobile
Replace the Star Citizen forum link in the main site groups nav to that of our org page
Add Avatars: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Add Sig image
Add & Update Wallpapers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Update Favicon
Update "Find Us On" links (Twitter, Facebook, Steam, Twitch)
Name changes (SSX Headlines, SSX News RSS, Copyright SSX etc)

Update the ideals image on the charter page & carousel
Add Teamspeak carousel image
Update IRC guide & chat link to #STR (New guide images: 1, 2, 3)
Upgrade forum
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Shattered Star Community to-do list

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:59 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4065
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
Don't change the Social Stuff until I'm around, probably this weekend.

I won't be around to make the code changes needed for a couple of days, as I'm otherwise occupied in the evenings till either Friday or Saturday, and changing them will cause a ton of silent errors to start spawning in the logs (as well as losing our content on the main site) and breaking the navs across the board. We also don't want Google trying to crawl the site and finding broken links, as it'll harm our profiles.

We should sort out time over the weekend to do this jointly, to minimise impact.

EDIT: Oh, it's all already breaking... I'll have to try and fix everything tonight if I have time.

Please hold off on changing other stuff until we're both around, as it has side effects...
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Shattered Star Community to-do list

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:10 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Sorry mate.
Just wanted to update as much stuff as I could by myself rather than expect you to do it all so thought I'd get it done today and then my part was out of the way. Apologies for any problems I've caused :/
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Shattered Star Community to-do list

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:44 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4065
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
It's fine mate, just wait on the rest till we can talk about it and assess it :)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:08 am

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
I'll add this post in here rather than create another thread but just wanted to say a few things :)

The poll we just had was a vote on whether one agreed or disagreed with the proposal I outlined in that opening post. Lots of things were discussed in the thread but the proposal was specifically Shattered Star Community and that is what the poll asked people to vote on.
The poll ended yesterday with a "Yes" to being in agreeance with that proposal so I made a list (above) of the updates that would need to be done to reflect such a change and made a start with the changes - Those being to update our name on the other pages we have (Twitter, YouTube etc), along with updating any links between those and replacing the Exiles banners with Community ones. The poll ended with a vote for yes so this was the logical next step I thought.

Twitter would have been named slightly different. I tried several other names but they were all taken or wouldn't fit (and I was talking about this on IRC whilst I was doing it). I settled with @ShatteredStar97. It's still the same profile with all the same content and same followers. We haven't abandoned the old Twitter account and made a new one or anything. Same for YouTube and Google+ (and Facebook when it's done).

There is no way to rename a Steam group unfortunately so it isn't possible to simply update the Exiles group on there like I did with the others for example. This meant either making a new one or having Community everywhere else but still representing the group as Exiles on Steam. So, I went ahead and created one and invited existing members on my friends list to it whilst asking (up above) for everyone else to do the same once they're in. The SSC abbreviation was already taken too btw which is why it is SSCOMM. Abbreviations aren't really used on Steam anyway (if you want a tag next to your name you have to add it via your own profile and you can put whatever you want there) but these can be changed if someone has a better alternative and it is not already taken.
- Twitch names can't be renamed either so the same will have to be done with our page over there if we're going with the proposal vote.

I can provide the necessary banners etc (and have done above) but Anny is the only one here who can make the changes to the main site. I know he's very busy and there's enough work for him above as it is so I wanted to do as much of that list as I could without passing it all to him or someone else. I'm the one with the art files and basically take care of YouTube & Twitter atm so it was also quicker just to replace those myself than pass the job on to someone else. With the exception of creating a new steam group and twitch profile, the rest of the stuff on that list can't be updated by just anyone and as the vote was a yes to the community proposal I didn't see a need to bring this back to a discussion as to how we would proceed. I just saw the vote had ended and got on with the changes that needed to be made to reflect it.

Apologies to any of you who have felt uninvolved by me doing this, haven't liked how I've handled it or thought I should have brought it back to the community for further discussion before we moved further or whatever. As I say, I took the proposal poll result and figured I was helping by getting started with the changes that would need to be made to reflect that. I didn't think there was a need for discussion as to how we went about that as the same changes would still need to be made if we are sticking with that result and most of those changes would still be down to the same people to make. As one of the main people here who has always remained active and involved whilst trying to keep us afloat it is just normal for me to do stuff like this so, sorry. Obviously I proposed Community in the first place and had the group vote for or against it (I'd have never gone forward with changes like that had we not had a vote or had that vote resulted in a no instead) but I'm just used to getting on with stuff.


If we're going with the "Yes" result to agreeing to the community proposal then there are still a few things you guys can do to help with those changes.
- We still need a Twitch page for Community rather than our Exiles one since we can't rename that as said. If someone wants to take that job on then by all means please do. You can find the updated banner in the links above and can pass the login details on to others here who would like to stream from there too. (BD & SL33PY have so far. Anny has expressed interest for the future). - (Or you can make your own banner for it if you'd prefer and it fits our look).
- I don't use Facebook so the Exiles page on there will need renaming to Community like has been done to the others, along with the updated banner with Community on it (linked above). If one of you FB guys can do that that'd be great.
- We had it set up so YouTube shares to Google+/Twitter, Twitch shares to Twitter and Twitter shares to Facebook. I guess some of that will have broken now and I'm not exactly sure how it worked in the first place so if someone else who has access rights to our other sites can take a look at that (once all of these are renamed ofc) that'd be very helpful.
- Join the Community Steam group (it's public). Don't need to leave the Exiles one but if the group as a whole is to go by Shattered Star Community then the new one will become our main and the one we have in the site nav.
- Plus anything I've missed and any other suggestions you guys might have for what we might need to do/update if we're doing this.

Or we can have a discussion on how we proceed with the rest of those changes but I don't really see the point myself as the same changes will need to be made, but whatever.

Otherwise, If you guys wish to take discussions further and debate on names other than Community then I won't stop you. The proposal was for Community, that's what was voted on and that's what I've started making the changes to point to but if we're not going with that result and going further with the naming then we best decide before any more further changes are made otherwise we'll not only have to redo them all but that will only cause further confusion to people. Also as I said in the other thread as well I don't want to have to kick a whole bunch of people from the Shattered Star Community steam group for us to have to create another group on there and then be telling peeps to join that one instead. That's just gonna annoy people and look like we're having some kind of identity crisis heh.


So yeah. Sorry if you've felt left out or haven't liked how I've gone about this. Just wanted to help and get on with it following the result of the poll. We can either continue what has already been put into motion and go with what was proposed and voted on these last 2 weeks, working our way down the list above (or spending time to decide what else needs to go on there) or we can put a stop to the updates and discuss other names and tags besides Community. I'd rather we just went with the poll myself since the proposal was for community and not "any other name but Exiles" or "I agree with post X on page Y" and that is what the poll asked people to vote on. The proposal was clearly outlined as community (go re-read it if you need to) and the poll question clearly asked whether we agreed with it or not. The result was yes. Anyway.. it's up to you guys at the end of the day and it would be a shame if we're gonna start throwing polls out of the window but let's just get on with it eh? :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:22 pm

User avatar
NF
Arbiter
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:
Thanks MS - good of you to allow a little wriggle room on the results of the poll for the dullards like me that wasn't reading the poll as such a black/white decision and more as an opening salvo in the discussion.

First off I just want to highlight the commitment and effort of those few who have kept the lights on here when interest waned and numbers dropped. I can't imagine the frustration they have endured and salute their drive to get us back on our feet. If that core group see this change as the necessary next step for the group then I will not stand in the way. As a result my view is definitely in the camp that a rebrand is a good thing - if only because those in the know say it is.,

My only concern is just what name we take.. As already mentioned I'm not a fan of "community" - just think it sounds a bit blah. My preference remains as laid out in the other thread:

Simply rebrand as "Shattered Star" leaving the members of each division to choose their own suffix to fit the style of game they are playing. Not saying we should rebrand the MWO division now but, as an example, wouldn't it have been nice to have been able to theme the name to fit the Battletech Universe? As also pointed out in chat =SS= is not a great moniker to use so I would suggest that the third word is compulsory.

Existing groups can keep their name without feeling alienated by any changes, new groups get the creative wriggle room to show their personalities whilst new members get to distance themselves from a history they weren't involved in or don't care about.

Its a bit of a cheat but this way we're not dropping the SSX name or reverting to SSC which seems to be the crux of the problem.. instead we are just relaxing the rules over how each game manages its own community and identity.


That all being said I do not feel so vehemently about it that I wont let the subject drop if it turns out that I am a lone voice - I post this just as a check to make sure that if there are any others who want to discuss it further they have a starter for 10. Similarly if the majority did read the poll as the final decision then I'll respect that as well.

(Ref the practicalities of making the change I agree that it is pretty straightforward and doesn't warrant any further discussion beyond spreading the workload. Whatever the outcome I'm happy to assist with any of the leg work needed to update everything so just give me a kick when I'm needed.)
NF

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:45 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Yar, I kinda wanted it to be straight forward, to the point and with a clear plan in mind this time :)
Our previous discussions and polls have always been a vote to simply keep or remove the Exiles tag with the hope of then going on to discuss other names if "remove" had won. It didn't and so both times we abided by the poll result and continued representing ourselves as Exiles again. Even last time when it was a split vote of 9 (keep), 8 (remove), 7 (don't care), we kept the name.
We've always gotten ourselves so fixated with what Exiles does or doesn't mean to each individual here, and for the group as a whole when we've done it that way and it's something we'll never all agree on. It's pointless discussing because there's no right or wrong. I wanted to avoid going over the same ground a third time but try and do things a bit different this time around. So I came at this with a slightly different approach and with a specific proposal in mind to pitch to the group. Not just "keep or drop exiles" like we've done before and then hope to have another poll after that to vote on names, the proposal and plan I outlined was for Shattered Star Community:

M.Steiner wrote:I didn't really want to be the one to bring this subject up again but since we always said we'd revisit it given the previous split vote, now is as good a time as any I think. It has been well over 2 years since we last had this discussion, believe it or not.

Star Citizen may not be 100% complete and out the door as a finished project yet but it is already becoming a thing for us and looks certain to be the home of our next group if all goes to plan. A few of us have already been playing Arena Commander together in there on a regular basis (more are welcome to come join!), we've been sharing stuff over on our YouTube page along with social media and yesterday we opened up our Star Citizen organization. We're going to be known as the Shattered Star Community in there, SSC as short.

When we were planning to go by the name "Burning Stars" and I was uploading videos to YouTube to that affect, I made a separate version of our YouTube intro with a little note to say that the Burning Stars were "A Squadron of the Shattered Star Exiles". So as to not confuse people seeing the Exiles name elsewhere. Going back to do the same for the Shattered Star Community is going to sound a little weird I think.

  • Shattered Star Community - A Squadron of the Shattered Star Exiles.
If it were written the other way around it would look and sound fine though:

  • Shattered Star Exiles - A Squadron of the Shattered Star Community
  • Burning Stars - A Squadron of the Shattered Star Community
  • etc.
But having Community be a group/division/squad of the Exiles sounds really weird and confusing to me.


The proposal.
We have the "Shattered Star Community" above the door here and re-claim our =SSC= tag along with it. The group as a whole would be identified as the community it is rather than having the Exiles up there which we can all agree from previous discussions has very split meaning and importance among us all. Exiles means more to some than others, in some cases has a different meaning or intention attached to it entirely and some of us don't care for the name at all or identifying ourselves with it. I think we're always going to be split on the Exiles name and our previous talks have pretty much proved that. As such I want to try and stay clear from us focusing on that too much as it's something we'll never agree on. Whatever the case, in the 11½ years I have been part of the the Shattered Star we have always referred to our home and our group as a whole as the "community". It's what we are and always have been.

If one of our groups in the future wants to go by a particular tag/name, that's cool. Like the examples above, one of our groups could decide to continue using the Exiles name if they wanted but we bring people back into the "community". The Shattered Star Exiles in X Game(s) would be a group(s) within the Shattered Star Community. Same again with the Burning Stars example, Exiles of the Shattered Star, The Shattered Star, or any other variations people choose to use in the games they play. We as a whole all come together as the Shattered Star Community. SSC.


and then asked the group to vote for/against it:
community-proposal.jpg
community-proposal.jpg (26.85 KiB) Viewed 6185 times

Whatever else was posted in the thread (other suggestions were made in our previous discussions too) the proposal was for Community and that's what the poll asked people to vote on. The vote was a yes. Honestly, I'd have pitched the "Shattered Star" in my opening post and had people vote on that instead but there's no getting around the "SS" tag that the group as a whole would be associated with by doing that. Even if we were formally using "S2" as a group, there would still be people calling us the SS as that's what our name would abbreviate to.
If people really want to go down the road of discussing other names besides Community then who am I to stop you all?. I'd just be disappointed if we're going to start throwing polls aside otherwise why bother having them?. Why propose something and have peeps vote as a group if we're then going to do something else?. I think my proposal post and poll question were pretty clear to be fair :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:23 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4065
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
Like I've said, it really doesn't matter to me either way what name people pick if they're set on changing it. There'll be no meaning and sense of belonging attached to it for me whatever it is, so it really should be what those who are invested in the idea want. I simply agreed with NF that given the way the thread had gone, it seemed Community was not what people were voting for, and some other ideas were being pitched so I considered it natural that they would be discussed.

For the record, if it matters, I tend to agree that Community is not the best choice. Of all the options that have ever been suggested, I would lean towards Society if we were forced to change. Though as I say, it makes no difference to me either way at this point.

On other notes:

NF wrote:First off I just want to highlight the commitment and effort of those few who have kept the lights on here when interest waned and numbers dropped. I can't imagine the frustration they have endured and salute their drive to get us back on our feet. If that core group see this change as the necessary next step for the group then I will not stand in the way. As a result my view is definitely in the camp that a rebrand is a good thing - if only because those in the know say it is.,

Not that I am or would ever speak against the effort and commitment of those like MS who've put a hell of a lot of time and effort in here whilst it's been quiet - as you say, I think those people's opinion should be given a lot of weight. But it's inaccurate to suggest that all of us in that core group are suggesting this is a necessary next step for the group - it's exactly the opposite. We're very split, so I think basing decisions off a perception that we're united (whichever way that perception is) is probably an inaccurate way of approaching this.

M.Steiner wrote:If people really want to go down the road of discussing other names besides Community then who am I to stop you all?. I'd just be disappointed if we're going to start throwing polls aside otherwise why bother having them?. Why propose something and have peeps vote as a group if we're then going to do something else?. I think my proposal post and poll question were pretty clear to be fair :)

Hmm, yeah. I couldn't agree more, but as I and others have said it's strange and frustrating this principle hasn't been applied over this particular issue in the past. I'm sure though that now that this particular decision has been reached, the issue won't be brought up again. Strange that.

Anyway, we should probably look to enshrine this principle in a more formal way going forward I'd say. Repeat votes to try and get different answers is not only pointless as you say, but also both publically and internally damaging.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:28 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
M.Steiner wrote:If people really want to go down the road of discussing other names besides Community then who am I to stop you all?. I'd just be disappointed if we're going to start throwing polls aside otherwise why bother having them?. Why propose something and have peeps vote as a group if we're then going to do something else?. I think my proposal post and poll question were pretty clear to be fair :)
Anubis wrote:Hmm, yeah. I couldn't agree more, but as I and others have said it's strange and frustrating this principle hasn't been applied over this particular issue in the past.

With respect (and assuming I'm understanding you right), whilst we may have revisited this subject a few times now (first in 2009, revisited in 2012 and now with the community proposal in 2015) those were not only several years apart but we've always moved forward with whatever the polls decided, even when the last one had "keep" at just a single vote ahead. This poll is days old on the other hand and what are we doing now exactly?. Quite honestly if there was ever a time when we should have continued discussion and put a poll aside it was last time with the 2012 three way split 9,8,7, but we didn't. We kept Exiles and it's still up there. That's what "won" so that's what we did. We're only revisiting it now because #1 we said at the time that we should, given how split it was and #2, I tried to approach it differently this time as I said in my other post. The proposal I made was clear and the poll question I asked people to vote on was too. The decision has already been made so unless we're going to throw that out (I wish we could have done that straight after the last vote but I shut up), let's just get going with it? :)

[Edit]
Anubis wrote:I'm sure though that now that this particular decision has been reached, the issue won't be brought up again. Strange that.

That's not really fair. Obviously you or anyone else who voted no weren't going to come and make the community proposal yourselves as you don't want change, you want to keep Exiles and we've had exiles for going on 11 years now. I made the proposal, I brought it up last time and BD brought it up the time before that. Are the 2 of us going to bring this issue up again now that the group has voted in favor of the proposal I put forward and (should) be going forward with it? Obviously not. But if you wanted to bring it up in the future as someone on the other side of the fence (since, like we were with the past 2 polls, you'll be on the "losing" side this time, for lack of a better word). I can't stop you. So whether this gets brought up again is completely up to the other "side" this time. That is ofc if we're going with what the poll decided as I say (and that shouldn't even be a question, imo. It never was with the other polls)....
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:40 am

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4065
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
No, I think it is fair. It's just fact. The tenet of "why bother having a vote if you're just going to ignore it and try for something else" isn't just something on a few weeks time delay - a couple of years gap doesn't make it any more right to break it in my mind. The community decided, twice, but the losing side just kept asking until they got their answer. That's really all there is to it - it's just fact.

I post the above comment, and this, in a great sense of frustration. Last time, when the vote was close, the cries were "lets just change anyway" and people got really offended when I stood up and said we should respect the will of the people. But now that the vote has gone the "desired" way maintaining the will of the people is paramount and we absolutely shouldn't consider it again.

I've deliberately not commented further on the topic since my last post on the other thread, and I haven't stood up since the vote trying to block it and claim historical precedent, even though I could have and feel I would be in the right if I did. I intended to stay off on the sidelines and not contribute further to the decisions being taken and the rewrites that will be necessary to implement the change. But that comment is just too much to be let by without it being called out for what it is. It leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth, and I find the whole thing just a bit hypocritical if I'm completely honest. That, clearly, was not the view until this result occurred.

I can only speak for myself, but I've absolutely no intention of bringing renaming back up again. What would be the point? The damage is already done once we change from my perspective, as we've cast aside what I've always considered the central identity and meaning of our group. Changing it back wouldn't repair that. That's my, subjective, view of the matter.

As I've said before, I also consider the prospect of repeatedly asking the same question over and over until the answer you want is given to be deeply undemocratic and against what we stand for, and as such I consider the decision final (in as much of a way as you can consider a third answer final anyway). So no, you'll not see this come back up again unless those who have voted for change want to change to something else again in future, I'd wager.

As for me, given the proposal was to create a unified umbrella under which we could represent ourselves as we wished, I'm inclined to remain "SSX" here and wherever I go. The name means a great deal to me if nothing else, and provided that freedom of naming continues to be the will of the group, I don't see the harm for now at least. That is, however, just my current thinking.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:05 am

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
I do actually agree with a lot of what you say but it has always been a difficult subject really, for both sides :)
I don't agree with "asking until you get the answer you want" either when you put it like that and it's not something I like or enjoy doing. Just... the way I view and feel about the Exiles name now (and have since the place we left closed its doors and moved on), is very different to how I felt when we originally set up shop here and named ourselves that. For me, keeping it has always felt like we've been holding ourselves in the past rather than trying to move on from it. For me, always a direct reminder of the split and the place/people/management (I feel) we became Exiled from. And yet we're the only Shattered Stars still standing. That has always seemed kinda meaningless/pointless to me and kinda damaging too really (imo). But as I say, we all view it differently and have different meanings attached to it so whilst keeping the name seems more damaging and counterproductive to me, changing it does for some of you.

I had hoped by bringing it up this time and with a clear proposal in mind that we could all meet in the middle and each get something out of it that we'd all be happy with. I didn't want 1 side to go away unhappy. My thinking being that if we weren't forcing each individual group to take up "Community" within their games or whatever and still allowing Exiles etc, then those of us who wanted change and for us to move away from that would get it and those of you who still felt attached to Exiles could still use it to a degree, just not branding the entire group as it and us bringing people back into the "Exiles". Since "community" doesn't have any kind of history attached to it other than the fact that's what we are. I suppose it was wishful thinking, hoping that I could try and (to a degree) please everyone but that had been my hope at least :)

Times and people change though and I don't think we should ever be afraid of revisiting previous polls or discussions further down the line. Talking about anything here and not just the naming. Sticking to our ways and forever more would not be healthy. We should always be able to reassess a situation or decision, admit we've made a mistake and change it, or just go in a different direction or whatever. I know you've said you'd have no intention of doing so but I wouldn't hold it against you or anyone else if you decided to bring the naming subject up again in the future. Maybe our name or group membership will have changed significantly in another 10 years? Who knows. We shouldn't be afraid of change though and no matter what decisions we make as a group I don't think it hurts to revisit them and make sure the group is still happy with them after some time has passed. If they are?. Then nothing changes and we continue as normal. If they aren't? then it's probably a good idea it was brought up. I think that's far more healthy personally :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:25 am

User avatar
Isileth
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Like Anny I also decided to withdraw somewhat from the discussion after I felt we had basically just reached an impasse and were just getting louder with our arguments and not getting anywhere.

I do feel now is perhaps a good time now things have cooled off to just look back and reflect on the situation, especially in terms of how the vote was handled and how future ones should be. Really I want this to be something positive to improve how we handle these things going forward rather than just trying to cause more aggro so please take it in that way.

To start with I still maintain that how the vote came about was wrong. If it was going to happen it should have been before the renaming of what is set to be our newest and most active game in a long time. As it was I felt that made the proposal quite biased from the start since the change had in effect already been implemented.

Secondly how the result was taken could have been handled much better as well. While the vote was given as a purely binary choice there was clearly a lot more nuanced views within the actual thread. Given that we have had the name Exiles for 11 years and hopefully we will have the new name for just as long I really don't think it would have hurt to open up another 2 weeks of discussion on how we might tweak the proposal to get even more support among the group. It felt very rushed when it didn't need to be.
The proposal only managed 64% support, with further discussion to refine and clarify some points we might have seen more people in favor of the final decision.

Thirdly, and I believe this is related to the rushed implementation, was further decisions being made without input from the rest of the group. We have names like Shattered Star Comm, SSCOMM, ShatteredStar97. Redesigned logos, banners and images suddenly popping up. While i'm not suggesting we need to set up a 2 week consultation to decide exactly which shade of blue we use in our banner, I do feel these changes are big enough to warrant gathering at least some input from the rest of the group. Even if its just a quick post on the forums or maybe just getting a bit of input from those in irc at the time. We should strive to make sure we are acting together and not just one or two people forging ahead with their own implementation.

I think the very fact that people were suddenly surprised by the changes and that people are still debating what name we should actually go with prove we should have taken a little longer and not charged straight in. Sadly I also think for something that was supposed to be uniting us under a common banner we are more divided as a group than when we started and unfortunately its already attached some bitterness and bad history to the new name.

I hope in future we learn from this and not only slow down a bit on big changes but we make sure its the best change we can made, not just the first one that gets voted on.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:53 am

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Isileth wrote:Thirdly, and I believe this is related to the rushed implementation, was further decisions being made without input from the rest of the group. We have names like Shattered Star Comm, SSCOMM, ShatteredStar97. Redesigned logos, banners and images suddenly popping up. While i'm not suggesting we need to set up a 2 week consultation to decide exactly which shade of blue we use in our banner, I do feel these changes are big enough to warrant gathering at least some input from the rest of the group. Even if its just a quick post on the forums or maybe just getting a bit of input from those in irc at the time. We should strive to make sure we are acting together and not just one or two people forging ahead with their own implementation.

Just for the record, I did ask on IRC for name suggestions when I was doing Twitter as that was a pain in the arse hehe.
We can easily change those though and I will if people have some better alternatives which they'd be happier with. With limited amount of characters you can use and names being unique it can be quite difficult though.

Twitter Profile Name: Shattered Star Comm [20 character limit]
The only alternatives I could think of which would fit were either "The Shattered Star", "Shattered Star" or just "SSC". We can't get the full Shattered Star Community name in there due to the character limit.

Twitter Handle: @ShatteredStar97 [15 character limit]
SSC, SSC_Gaming, SSCGaming, ShatteredStar, Shattered_Star & SSCommunity are already taken.
I was trying names for ages here as everything I tried was already in use. I'd have simply gone from our previous @SSX_Gaming to @SSC_Gaming if I could have but no go unfortunately. @ShatteredStar97 seemed appropriate given we've been using "gaming together since 1997" around our sites for a while already and that was available so I took it.


Steam group abbreviation: SSCOMM [12 character limit]
SSC is already taken. SSCOMMUNITY might be an option but that seems way too long for a tag imo but I can switch to that (if it's free), if people would prefer it?. If we ever wanted to go back to SSCOMM we might not be able to though as I've read (it may have changed or been a unique case) that abbreviations don't free up for reusing even when you change them.


Feel free to post some suggestions if any of you have any. I gave the naming plenty of thought when I was doing it and didn't rush just to get them up or whatever. I think I picked the best options given the limitations and the names available to us but if anyone wants them changing and has better suggestions to try then I can try them :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:22 pm

User avatar
BlackDove
Posts: 3057
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:22 am
Location: Denial
SSCOMM was literally the sixth or seventh thing I put in there. There's a character count and type limit, meaning you are out of options real fast.

SSC and such was taken.

There is no switching, unless they add that functionality to the org menus later.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:37 pm

User avatar
NF
Arbiter
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:
Since I initially stated that I was staying the hell away from this topic boy have I been sucked back in. Given my absence it's not the homecoming I wanted and I do wonder how many old members have popped in recently, seen the threads, and then carried on their merry way without a word.

First off it turns out that my posts/opinion over the last week have been based on a flawed understanding of the situation here. Namely that all of the members who had been here consistently over the years were all in agreement. I am now advised that this is not the case and I am therefore forced to amend my stance on this whole situation...

Secondly can we stop talking about Twitter handles or Steam groups - No one cares what the exact twitter handle is or how the steam group is named. It is the name change behind the new handles that is still the sticking point.

Thirdly I have a positive history with the SSX and proudly tell people about it. I'm not the only one - just because YOU might not have a history with the name then that does not mean you should ignore the feelings of those who do. People have it embroidered on hats and fixed as their Xbox Live usernames. It's also worth highlighting that, like many, I also have a history with SSC - but in this case it is not something I am happy to celebrate with an SSC tag. I joined SSX for a reason...

The upshot of all this is that I want to echo Isi and would like to see some more discussion around the name.

I would also like to see some strong guidelines as to how future votes of this magnitude are progressed and decided upon.. Internal politics killed the SSC. It's about to see the end of the SSX. I appreciate that I may not be on the winning side of this argument, and I will live with that, but if I have this conversation again 6 months or 10 years down the line then I am definitely done with the whole thing.
NF

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:59 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
NF wrote:Secondly can we stop talking about Twitter handles or Steam groups - No one cares what the exact twitter handle is or how the steam group is named. It is the name change behind the new handles that is still the sticking point.

I was just replying to Isi's post saying there should have been imput from the rest of the group when deciding those. I think I chose the best options available to us given what's available but I was just offering to change them if anyone had any better alternatives.

Thirdly I have a positive history with the SSX and proudly tell people about it. I'm not the only one - just because YOU might not have a history with the name then that does not mean you should ignore the feelings of those who do. People have it embroidered on hats and fixed as their Xbox Live usernames.

This is why I came at this with a clear proposal in mind to put to the community and not just ask to "keep or remove" like we have done both times before because then the discussion would have focused on that alone. I've said it several times before but we are never going to agree/feel exactly the same way on SSX/Exiles because we all view it very, very differently. I view it differently to you, Anny views it another way entirely and whilst both he and Isi voted against what I proposed their way of viewing it, their own history with it and how they feel attached to it is also different from one another. None of us are wrong here but this is why I wanted to avoid focusing too much on the type of stuff you've just said. It's pointless and never gonna get us anywhere. All of our feelings are valid but they're also much different.

The upshot of all this is that I want to echo Isi and would like to see some more discussion around the name.

Fair enough if enough others want to do that and I will engage in those discussions too if needs be but it would be a shame I think. Community is what was proposed to the group, the poll specifically asked if people agreed with that proposal or not and the vote came back with a yes. The opening post and its poll question could not have been clearer. I could have suggested in the thread that we put "Shattered Star" aside and its "SS" tag and just call ourselves The Schutzstaffel but that wouldn't change the proposal I put forward and asked people to vote for or against, would it?
We abided by the previous poll results and kept Exiles even when the last poll ended with just a single vote ahead. Personally I don't think we should have given how extremely split that result was, I think we should have continued discussing things. We didn't. The poll decided it and that's what we did. The subject was dropped until now (since we did at least say we'd revisit it again given that split).

Each time the vote has been to keep exiles, we've kept it. We might have revisited this topic every few years but the name is still up there for all to see and always remained that way. Now that vote has gone the other way and is in favor of the Community proposal I put forward we're (possibly) going to throw that out and do/go with something else?. How fair would that be?. Double standards or what. - "Strange that" as Anny would say.
Do what you all want at the end of the day but just do something. We're neither here nor there atm.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:09 pm

User avatar
NF
Arbiter
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:
I actually wrote a different post from this one that argued beautifully to remain the Exiles. It was some of the best crafted prose I've ever written and easily worth some kind of literary prize I'm sure. Of course you'll have to take my word for it as I deleted it.

I realised that I was desperately trying to argue the case for those who were there at the beginning and are now absent. Those people who don't have a say because they haven't been on the forums for a month, a year, or a decade. The more I had discussed this subject the more I had got worked up about it - I had moved from indifference to vocal objector for no other reason than what I thought they would say if they were here and they came back to a new, rebranded, Shattered Star. If someone had tried to do that with me when I was absent then I would have called them an idiot and told them that I fight my own battles.

This should not have been the basis for being an argumentative sod - I have plenty of legitimate reasons for being that, just not in this conversation. Ultimately it's been MS and BD who have welcomed me back in to the fold the most and although I have never doubted their good intentions I have been harsh on their plans. For that I apologise.

I also just want to play games - I get so little time these days that wasting them arguing over this is just unbelievably stupid.

Yes I would prefer to stay an Exile, and yes I do still recommend that some time is given to those others who want to have a say but, for me, I hereby return to indifference..
NF

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:22 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4065
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
For the record, given the understandable call of double standards on continuing to debate. I can only speak for myself but that's not what I'm doing here.

I'm not saying that we should throw the result out at all. It's really up to you guys because, as I say, I intend to play no part in any discussions about a change. I'm merely saying that it appeared people at the end of the thread were voting yes, but not to community.

My expectation would be that we'd at least clarify that before moving forward in case the majority of your yes voters want something else, but that's up to you.

My only points in this thread have been:

1) Don't change account configs or URLs without letting me know so we can be sure stuff won't break.

2) It's very hypocritical to claim now that the voice of the people must stand and no discussion can follow.

Anything else you're seeing here on my part, you're imagining. It's none of my business what you do beyond the admin changes as I've no intention of participating.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:08 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Anubis wrote:1) Don't change account configs or URLs without letting me know so we can be sure stuff won't break.

2) It's very hypocritical to claim now that the voice of the people must stand and no discussion can follow.

1. I won't be changing anything else for now, don't worry. I've been very reluctant to move forward with anything else (like making a new twitch page) until we know what we're doing.

2. Oh I agree. I think discussion should have followed the last poll rather than it being carried but it didn't and so it would be kind of hypocritical to allow that now when the vote has gone the other way. Hence my double standards comment.


Okay, so.. As I say, I do think it would be unfair and hypocritical to do so now when we didn't do it with the previous vote but in the interest of trying to please and not have peeps go away from this feeling annoyed or upset, I'll be quiet and let that happen if that's what people want.
I'm going to put a second poll up to ask one question. #1 - Go with Community as was proposed and already voted on or #2 - Discuss other naming options and tags.

If #1 wins then we continue rebranding to Shattered Star Community like planned and (should have) been decided on, otherwise we continue discussion in another thread and we come up with a list of other names to vote on along side it. If #2 wins then it also means making a third Steam group too (unless we don't bother) and me having to go back to my art files again and replace Community with whatever else we come up with but if doing that will please as many people as possible then okay.

One thing though. If we vote to brainstorm other naming options and not simply go with what the Community proposal poll had decided for us (like we did when the result was to keep the Exiles name previously), we should keep this in mind for future votes. Polls have always been the way a group decision has been made here and the results of those have always been carried forward (at least to my memory). Last time we had a vote on this the decision was final and no further discussion took place until now. If we're tweaking those rules then we have to remember this for future. It can't just be for this instance because some people are on the "losing" side this time. We could run into problems if we do that though and that would be my worry. If a poll isn't definitive then how is a decision made final?. The arbiter has the final say?. There will always be people voting for or against something so it will be hard to decide when we should or shouldn't do that and we couldn't do it all the time otherwise it'd be pointless having them in the first place heh. Anyway, that is a discussion for another time if that is what we do.

I shall make the poll short so we can get a decision asap and move forward with whatever. Not that this stuff needs rushing but we already spent 2 weeks voting on the community proposal and half a week dilly-dallying. We have one name here, another name on Twitter etc and broken links in the nav. Really needs getting on with. Sound fair? :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:35 am

User avatar
Isileth
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: UK
M.Steiner wrote:One thing though. If we vote to brainstorm other naming options and not simply go with what the Community proposal poll had decided for us (like we did when the result was to keep the Exiles name previously), we should keep this in mind for future votes. Polls have always been the way a group decision has been made here and the results of those have always been carried forward (at least to my memory). Last time we had a vote on this the decision was final and no further discussion took place until now. If we're tweaking those rules then we have to remember this for future. It can't just be for this instance because some people are on the "losing" side this time. We could run into problems if we do that though and that would be my worry. If a poll isn't definitive then how is a decision made final?. The arbiter has the final say?. There will always be people voting for or against something so it will be hard to decide when we should or shouldn't do that and we couldn't do it all the time otherwise it'd be pointless having them in the first place heh.


I think this speaks more to the idea that putting this to a one off binary poll wasn't the best idea, rather than any sense that its unfair. People clearly had varying views along the spectrum and weren't necessarily voting for their choice but just against the other or for the one they considered least bad or closest to what they wanted.

For me the way to have done this (ignoring the other complaints about timing and such) would have been an initial poll and discussion to pick a new name and tag, flesh out its implementation and make any tweaks needed. Then in a new poll give the option of remaining Shattered Star Exiles or changing to the new name.

That way each vote is clear and specific, it gives time to work out some details and be precise about what exactly would change and what the limits are. For example im still very unclear on what our group naming scheme is and yet the vote has already passed and the changes made.

You only have to read through the original poll thread to see even as people were voting yes they were discussing other potential names and tags, clearly it needed more work before we went to a final vote.
Not to mention that those of us who voted no will still want a say in the future name of the group and yet we could hardly be proposing those ideas in the same thread we are arguing against the change in.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:42 am

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Anubis wrote:I intend to play no part in any discussions about a change.

Anubis wrote:It's none of my business what you do beyond the admin changes as I've no intention of participating.

Meant to reply to this before.

Sure it is. The vote may have gone a different way than what you had wanted it to but you're still a member of the group at the end of the day mate. Your participation is just as important as everyone else here regardless of what each of us voted for. Don't take your bat and ball home :)

To go back to something I said in a previous post but times and people do change. It may not be ideal to revisit subjects like this and I know you don't really agree with "asking until you get the answer you want" or whatever but doing so helps to ensure the majority of people are still happy about something that was previous decided, in the present. The group of active and participating members we have today is not only different than what we had in 2012 and 2009 when we had this out before but with our push into social media, YouTube and Twitch and the possibility that some of us may have simply changed our minds from what we voted before, I do think it's a healthy thing for us to do. Talking about polls and group decisions in general but if the group we have today still felt the same way about something that was decided back in XXXX then that's great and a vote would show that that was still the case. But if not?. Then I do think that's good for us as I say.

I haven't voted on the other poll just yet but whilst I do still think it would be kind of hypocritical of us to go on to have further brainstorming on the name and not pass the vote we've already had (since that's what we did when the vote was to keep Exiles in the past), and doing so would give me extra work to have to go back and redo the names on those art files and redo the changes I'd already put in motion. I'm at least considering voting that way myself. It does go against what we've done with previous polls though and I do still think the proposal and question was perfectly clear. Will see.

The Exiles name which the group has previously chosen to keep for going on 11 years was never a group decision. Or at least I had absolutely no part in its naming from what I remember from the split and I've been here since day one. The name seemed appropriate to me at the time so I just went along with what had already been decided by whoever or whichever individuals decided to go with that name.
If the group votes to further discuss other names to switch to rather than go with Community then this may be a really good thing for us actually. Where we can all help choose a name together, as a group, and try and pick something we can all be happy with, all have imput on and have a tag we can all be proud to wear moving forward. It'd be a great opportunity for us, thinking about it. If that's what the group votes for then that's what we'll do. If that is indeed the case I hope you will participate with us too, Anny :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:08 am

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Just to note that I have updated the above with image links for The Shattered Star now so we can start working our way down the list. I've already made a start by re-doing some of the changes I made last time (mainly banners, no other links have changed) :)
I think the priority being should be to get the banner above changed first and foremost along with the main carousel image (the old files just need overwriting with the new so that should only take 30 seconds or so), then to update the links for Twitter & Steam on the "find us on" nav above as they have been pointing to the wrong place for 3 weeks now :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:51 pm

User avatar
NF
Arbiter
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:
Anything I can do to assist? Happy to take on any jobs you might have.
NF

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:17 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4065
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
The images are mostly done (thanks MS for optimising as I pestered on IRC).

I'll do the links and headings later if I have time, but I'm packing for a weekend away tonight so might not get chance. If not, I'll do them Monday.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Upcoming changes and to-do list

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:46 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Thanks again, Anny! :thumb:


NF wrote:Anything I can do to assist? Happy to take on any jobs you might have.

Could set us up a new twitch page under The Shattered Star?. We can't rename the eXiles one unfortunately so that's still to do :)
The people who have the login details for our current account are SL33PY, BD, Anny & myself I believe, but feel free to pass them on to anyone else here if they'd like to be able to stream from it.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.


Return to “Members”


Information

  • Who is online

  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron